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| 1 | + # Node Foundation CTC Meeting 2016-08-10 | ||
| 2 | + | ||
| 3 | + ## Links | ||
| 4 | + | ||
| 5 | + * **Audio Recording**: TBP | ||
| 6 | + * **GitHub Issue**: [#8030](https://github.com/nodejs/node/issues/8030) | ||
| 7 | + * **Minutes Google Doc**: <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1L65L7qhX5MrGeFwrub4-Z8klrwxJym-Q8CIEZsedohE> | ||
| 8 | + * _Previous Minutes Google Doc: <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ufR5dNuN3JLmFPvCvLYGRa98_-eqy5yY3zJuTnT60K8>_ | ||
| 9 | + | ||
| 10 | + | ||
| 11 | + | ||
| 12 | + ## Present | ||
| 13 | + | ||
| 14 | + * Anna Henningsen @addaleax (CTC) | ||
| 15 | + * Bradley Meck @bmeck (observer/GoDaddy/TC39) | ||
| 16 | + * Ben Noordhuis @bnoordhuis (CTC) | ||
| 17 | + * Сковорода Никита Андреевич @ChALkeR (CTC) | ||
| 18 | + * Colin Ihrig @cjihrig (CTC) | ||
| 19 | + * Evan Lucas @evanlucas (CTC) | ||
| 20 | + * Jeremiah Senkpiel @Fishrock123 (CTC) | ||
| 21 | + * Tracy Hinds @hackygolucky (observer/Node.js Foundation) | ||
| 22 | + * James M Snell @jasnell (CTC) | ||
| 23 | + * Josh Gavant @joshgav (observer/Microsoft) | ||
| 24 | + * Michael Dawson @mhdawson (CTC) | ||
| 25 | + * Brian White @mscdex (CTC) | ||
| 26 | + * Ali Ijaz Sheikh @ofrobots (CTC) | ||
| 27 | + * Myles Borins @TheAlphaNerd (observer/IBM) | ||
| 28 | + * Trevor Norris @trevnorris (CTC) | ||
| 29 | + * Rich Trott @Trott (CTC) | ||
| 30 | + | ||
| 31 | + | ||
| 32 | + ## Standup | ||
| 33 | + | ||
| 34 | + * Anna Henningsen @addaleax (CTC) | ||
| 35 | + * Issues/PR review | ||
| 36 | + * Bradley Meck @bmeck (observer/GoDaddy/TC39) | ||
| 37 | + * Came up with overhauled plan for Module moving forward | ||
| 38 | + * Сковорода Никита Андреевич @ChALkeR (CTC) | ||
| 39 | + * A bit more work on the ecosystem detection tool | ||
| 40 | + * Mostly comments, nothing significant | ||
| 41 | + * Will file a docs linting PR soon — needs some final cleanup | ||
| 42 | + * Colin Ihrig @cjihrig (CTC) | ||
| 43 | + * Reviewing issues and PRs | ||
| 44 | + * Working on the v6.4.0 release | ||
| 45 | + * Evan Lucas @evanlucas (CTC) | ||
| 46 | + * some more commit validation work | ||
| 47 | + * backport pr for worker.exitedAfterDisconnect to v4.x | ||
| 48 | + * Jeremiah Senkpiel @Fishrock123 (CTC) | ||
| 49 | + * Nothing in particular | ||
| 50 | + * Tracy Hinds @hackygolucky (observer/Node.js Foundation) | ||
| 51 | + * James M Snell @jasnell (CTC) | ||
| 52 | + * Going through PRs/Issues | ||
| 53 | + * More exploration of possibility of HTTP/2 impl in core | ||
| 54 | + * Other miscellaneous things | ||
| 55 | + * Josh Gavant @joshgav (observer/Microsoft) | ||
| 56 | + * meetings notes | ||
| 57 | + * review some issues | ||
| 58 | + * Michael Dawson @mhdawson (CTC) | ||
| 59 | + * adding linxuOne release machine to the release CI, and getting linuxOne added to release job so that we get nightlies for that platform | ||
| 60 | + * configuring new AIX machines from osuosl, adding to CI and validating with AIX build jobs that they look good. Working to get added to regular regression jobs. | ||
| 61 | + * Working on build wg, FIPs and post-mortem presentations for Node interactive Europe | ||
| 62 | + * Landing a few PRs | ||
| 63 | + * Reading/commenting on issues | ||
| 64 | + * Participation in LTS and Build WGs | ||
| 65 | + * ABI stable API PoC | ||
| 66 | + * Brian White @mscdex (CTC) | ||
| 67 | + * Reviewing PRs, commenting on issues | ||
| 68 | + * Ali Ijaz Sheikh @ofrobots (CTC) | ||
| 69 | + * v8_inspector updates, V8 backports, writing up a doc on maintaining V8 | ||
| 70 | + * Myles Borins @TheAlphaNerd (observer/IBM) | ||
| 71 | + * v4.5.0 testing (potential regression) | ||
| 72 | + * ABI Smoke Testing Job | ||
| 73 | + * Landing V8 5.1 on v6.x | ||
| 74 | + * junit reporters for CI with Johann | ||
| 75 | + * Trevor Norris @trevnorris (CTC) | ||
| 76 | + * PR reviews | ||
| 77 | + * Vacation most of the week | ||
| 78 | + * Rich Trott @Trott (CTC) | ||
| 79 | + * onboarded @fhinkel | ||
| 80 | + * minor work on tests | ||
| 81 | + * ESLint update, minor indentation rule update | ||
| 82 | + * Steven Loomis (Observer) | ||
| 83 | + * Asked me to pass on his regrets as he’s on vacation. | ||
| 84 | + * He’s been working on more Intl related items. | ||
| 85 | + | ||
| 86 | + | ||
| 87 | + ## Agenda | ||
| 88 | + | ||
| 89 | + Extracted from **ctc-agenda** labelled issues and pull requests from the **nodejs org** prior to the meeting. | ||
| 90 | + | ||
| 91 | + ### nodejs/node | ||
| 92 | + | ||
| 93 | + * v4.5.0 proposal [#7688](https://github.com/nodejs/node/pull/7688) | ||
| 94 | + * buffer: hard-deprecate Buffer constructor [#7152](https://github.com/nodejs/node/pull/7152) | ||
| 95 | + * Revert "fs: add a temporary fix for re-evaluation support" [#6413](https://github.com/nodejs/node/pull/6413) | ||
| 96 | + * errors: add internal/errors module [#6573](https://github.com/nodejs/node/pull/6573) | ||
| 97 | + * Introduce staging branch for stable release streams [#6306](https://github.com/nodejs/node/issues/6306) | ||
| 98 | + | ||
| 99 | + ### nodejs/node-eps | ||
| 100 | + | ||
| 101 | + * proposal: WHATWG URL standard implementation [#28](https://github.com/nodejs/node-eps/pull/28) | ||
| 102 | + | ||
| 103 | + ### general | ||
| 104 | + | ||
| 105 | + * discussion: CommonJS and ES6 modules interoperability (<https://gist.github.com/bmeck/52ee45e7c34d1eac44ce8c5fe436d753>) | ||
| 106 | + | ||
| 107 | + | ||
| 108 | + ## Previous Meeting | ||
| 109 | + | ||
| 110 | + ### nodejs/node | ||
| 111 | + | ||
| 112 | + * CTC membership nomination: @addaleax [#7607](https://github.com/nodejs/node/issues/7607) | ||
| 113 | + * Revert fs changes [#7846](https://github.com/nodejs/node/pull/7846) | ||
| 114 | + * [meta] realpath issues in v6 [#7726](https://github.com/nodejs/node/issues/7726) | ||
| 115 | + * v4.5.0 proposal [#7688](https://github.com/nodejs/node/pull/7688) | ||
| 116 | + * build: drop support for VS 2013 in v7 [#7484](https://github.com/nodejs/node/issues/7484) | ||
| 117 | + * New issue specifically for v6: [#7989](https://github.com/nodejs/node/issues/7989) | ||
| 118 | + * http: don't inherit from Object.prototype [#6102](https://github.com/nodejs/node/pull/6102) | ||
| 119 | + | ||
| 120 | + ### nodejs/node-eps | ||
| 121 | + | ||
| 122 | + * proposal: WHATWG URL standard implementation [#28](https://github.com/nodejs/node-eps/pull/28) | ||
| 123 | + | ||
| 124 | + ## Minutes | ||
| 125 | + | ||
| 126 | + ### v4.5.0 proposal [#7688](https://github.com/nodejs/node/pull/7688) | ||
| 127 | + | ||
| 128 | + @thealphanerd: investigating problem with Bower, may delay release, if so will notify everyone. | ||
| 129 | + | ||
| 130 | + **Next steps**: | ||
| 131 | + | ||
| 132 | + * As above. | ||
| 133 | + | ||
| 134 | + --- | ||
| 135 | + | ||
| 136 | + ### buffer: hard-deprecate Buffer constructor [#7152](https://github.com/nodejs/node/pull/7152) | ||
| 137 | + | ||
| 138 | + @trevnorris: In the future the Buffer function will need to be a proper class so that `iterate` can return a buffer and so that users can inherit from Buffer. | ||
| 139 | + | ||
| 140 | + Enabling inheritance forces the use of `new`. Thus it will break anyone who uses `Buffer` without the `new` keyword. | ||
| 141 | + | ||
| 142 | + @evanlucas: Wasn’t there a way around that? | ||
| 143 | + Perhaps with use of @@species symbol, but still doesn’t remove the fact that we’ll need to remove the `new` keyword at some point. | ||
| 144 | + | ||
| 145 | + @addaleax: We could work around using `Reflect` API and check if call was made with `new` or not. There were perf concerns, @RReverser worked on something (see <https://github.com/nodejs/node/pull/7152#discussion_r74932064>). | ||
| 146 | + | ||
| 147 | + @evanlucas: Can we do that and just soft-deprecate not using `new`? | ||
| 148 | + | ||
| 149 | + @jasnell: We should absolutely *not* deprecate `new Buffer(...)`. | ||
| 150 | + | ||
| 151 | + @chalker: [Deprecating `new Buffer()` will force libraries to work around this in 0.10, 0.12, and LTS <4.4, doesn’t sound like a good thing to do now. | ||
| 152 | + | ||
| 153 | + **Next steps**: | ||
| 154 | + | ||
| 155 | + * Continue discussion in GitHub. | ||
| 156 | + * Finalize decision next week. | ||
| 157 | + | ||
| 158 | + --- | ||
| 159 | + | ||
| 160 | + ### Revert "fs: add a temporary fix for re-evaluation support" [#6413](https://github.com/nodejs/node/pull/6413) | ||
| 161 | + | ||
| 162 | + Do we land the revert? | ||
| 163 | + | ||
| 164 | + @chalker: This is going to break modules, notably those which depend on `graceful-fs`, including `gulp` and `unzip` (there’s another unzip module people use, unzip is not updated for a long time and its usage is rapidly decreasing), other inactive modules. | ||
| 165 | + | ||
| 166 | + gulp will update `graceful-fs` Gulp v4. Gulp accounts for 42% of usage of `graceful-fs`. Gulp doesn’t want to update `graceful-fs` in v3 because it's a semver-major change, wants to wait for semver-major update till v4. | ||
| 167 | + | ||
| 168 | + @jasnell: If we keep it as is I don’t think the modules are going to get fixed. | ||
| 169 | + | ||
| 170 | + @thealphanerd: if gulp v3 isn’t updated then it will continue to cause problems for people through v7 lifetime. Can gulp do something to make this easier on the community? | ||
| 171 | + | ||
| 172 | + @thealphanerd will follow up with gulp project leads about updating `graceful-fs` in Gulp v3. | ||
| 173 | + | ||
| 174 | + @chalker: Old version of `graceful-fs` now includes its own message that it will be broken in Node v7. Would be best to live up to our commitment. | ||
| 175 | + | ||
| 176 | + **Next steps**: | ||
| 177 | + | ||
| 178 | + * Myles to follow up with Gulp about changes in v3, notify CTC as appropriate. | ||
| 179 | + * Finalize decision next week. | ||
| 180 | + | ||
| 181 | + --- | ||
| 182 | + | ||
| 183 | + ### proposal: WHATWG URL standard implementation [#28](https://github.com/nodejs/node-eps/pull/28) | ||
| 184 | + | ||
| 185 | + Should `url` be a global or not? | ||
| 186 | + @jasnell: To start let’s just not make it a global. | ||
| 187 | + | ||
| 188 | + @jasnell: No need to include this in v6; include in master and in v7. | ||
| 189 | + | ||
| 190 | + First step is to decide to land this as an EP in Node-EPs. Then, consider implementation. | ||
| 191 | + | ||
| 192 | + @evanlucas: Will the similarity of these cause confusion? | ||
| 193 | + `require(‘url’).Url` and `require(‘url’).URL`. | ||
| 194 | + | ||
| 195 | + @jasnell: best answer is I’m not sure yet. | ||
| 196 | + | ||
| 197 | + @jasnell: We’ll move forward on the EP without the global. | ||
| 198 | + | ||
| 199 | + **Next steps**: | ||
| 200 | + | ||
| 201 | + * Remove global then land EP. | ||
| 202 | + * Continue work/review on impl. | ||
| 203 | + | ||
| 204 | + --- | ||
| 205 | + | ||
| 206 | + ### errors: add internal/errors module [#6573](https://github.com/nodejs/node/pull/6573) | ||
| 207 | + | ||
| 208 | + @jasnell: This begins the process of changing errors implementation so that changes to their text are not semver-major. | ||
| 209 | + | ||
| 210 | + Do we want this to land in v7? If we do, it needs to be complete by the end of August. | ||
| 211 | + | ||
| 212 | + @Fishrock123: think about whether we can keep the syntax similar between js and c++. | ||
| 213 | + | ||
| 214 | + @jasnell: if additional work is needed for C errors we should not rush it. | ||
| 215 | + | ||
| 216 | + **Next steps**: | ||
| 217 | + | ||
| 218 | + * Review in GitHub. | ||
| 219 | + * Finalize next week. | ||
| 220 | + | ||
| 221 | + --- | ||
| 222 | + | ||
| 223 | + ### Introduce staging branch for stable release streams [#6306](https://github.com/nodejs/node/issues/6306) | ||
| 224 | + | ||
| 225 | + @thealphanerd: If we had a staging branch we’d avoid blocking releases due to problematic commits. | ||
| 226 | + | ||
| 227 | + @Fishrock123: You can already stage to `v6.x` but usually people don’t do that. | ||
| 228 | + | ||
| 229 | + @thealphanerd: Since it has the same function as `staging` it would be good to name them similarly. | ||
| 230 | + | ||
| 231 | + @bnoordhuis: it’s confusing that there are different ways to get PRs backported in different branches. | ||
| 232 | + | ||
| 233 | + @Fishrock123: Actual practices are not likely to change. | ||
| 234 | + | ||
| 235 | + **Next steps**: | ||
| 236 | + | ||
| 237 | + * Continue discussion in GH. | ||
| 238 | + * Keep on agenda. | ||
| 239 | + | ||
| 240 | + --- | ||
| 241 | + | ||
| 242 | + ### discussion: CommonJS and ES6 modules interoperability (see <https://gist.github.com/bmeck/52ee45e7c34d1eac44ce8c5fe436d753>) | ||
| 243 | + | ||
| 244 | + @bmeck: | ||
| 245 | + | ||
| 246 | + * Cannot match babel’s semantics. | ||
| 247 | + * Cannot support named imports from CJS modules. | ||
| 248 | + | ||
| 249 | + We cannot match babel’s semantics so whatever happens in the future, at a minimum people who use babel to compile will have to change to use whatever Node is using for ES modules. | ||
| 250 | + | ||
| 251 | + There’s no real way for us to support named imports from CJS modules, so these will be imported as the `default` property only, so people will not be able to use just `readFile` from `fs`. | ||
| 252 | + | ||
| 253 | + Those 2 breakages mean we have to rethink this. First route was to match babel. | ||
| 254 | + | ||
| 255 | + @bmeck proposes Node does a hard break. Remove most of Node’s magic names. | ||
| 256 | + | ||
| 257 | + We’ll need a separate WHATWG `registry` object | ||
| 258 | + | ||
| 259 | + @bmeck: New features are going to be targeting the module grammar exclusively. For example, `await` is not a keyword in the script grammar and if it’s treated that way it’s a language extension. TC39 considers `script` somewhat legacy. | ||
| 260 | + | ||
| 261 | + **Next steps**: | ||
| 262 | + | ||
| 263 | + * Schedule a session specifically on modules. | ||
| 264 | + | ||
| 265 | + --- | ||
| 266 | + | ||
| 267 | + ## Q/A on public fora | ||
| 268 | + | ||
| 269 | + Q: Regarding WHATWG URL, how will updates be handled - major, minor, bug fix? | ||
| 270 | + | ||
| 271 | + @jasnell: Still need to figure out process. Currently monitoring WHATWG to get a sense of their process. If their change is semver-major ours would presumably also be. | ||
| 272 | + | ||
| 273 | + ## Upcoming Meetings | ||
| 274 | + | ||
| 275 | + * CTC: 2016-08-17 | ||
| 276 | + * TSC: 2016-08-11 | ||
| 277 | + * Build: Sept | ||
| 278 | + * LTS: Sept | ||
| 279 | + * Diagnostics: Sept | ||
| 280 | + * Post-Mortem: Sept | ||
| 281 | + * API: Sept | ||
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