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While I am generally in favor of making quest text messages less generic-sounding, I don't think these changes quite hit the mark tonally. Twoflower's dialogue: Sounds too casual for someone originally from the Agatean Empire. "Ah heck", "or whatever", "stuff", "be jazzed", etc don't sound like things he would say. It comes across more like he's trying to do the "how do you do, fellow kids" meme. He can be optimistic and naive without resorting to this. The Master of Thieves's dialogue: Pretty much aligns with his diction in the Rogue quest, so I don't have an issue with it. It's "complimentary cement shoes", not "complementary", though. Continuity errors:
Technical issues:
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Thank you! I would like to have another go over this with your feedback in mind. I'll update this PR when I've done so (unless you'd rather I closed it and submitted a new one.) A few replies to particular points, all of which broadly agree with you:
EDIT: Oh, and I think there are Aldermen mentioned in one of the Watch books, but I can't cite chapter and verse. In any case, I agree about lowering the stakes. ANOTHER EDIT: It's in Sourcery (at least). When the wizards have just lizarded the Patrician and are realising that they're crossing a line it will be hard to uncross: "Out there was the council of aldermen, the city watch, the Guild of Thieves, the Guild of Merchants, the priesthoods... and none of them knew what was about to hit them." Thanks again for your quick and detailed feedback! |
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That's exactly the sort of thing "Convert to draft" is for. Then, when you feel like you're finished tinkering, bring it out of draft. |
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Are you sure it was "per nhmall's" feedback? All I mentioned was "convert to draft." |
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Oops, that should be "per copperwater's feedback", of course. I'm going to leave this as a draft at least overnight, so that I can check it over with fresh eyes tomorrow. |
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some bits on the new commits:
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Great, thank you. I've put this PR back into draft while I work those through.
@copperwater, I agree that would be better but is it possible? I'd need to specify that, say, a rock troll named Detritus appeared on exactly one of the upper filler levels, but they all use the same lua file, so how would I stop it generating each monster on every level? (I'm more of a writer than a coder these days...)
Yes it is, because Twoflower says "a new Master of Thieves", not "a new the Master of Thieves", unless I've missed a better way to do that.
I thought I had counted all of these and left no lines past 78 characters inclusive (allowing about 10 for %p), but I'll check again. (edit: nope, I missed some.) |
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That is a valid concern, but I believe there is only ever one upper filler level due to how the quest dungeon is defined (5-6 levels, start level is number 1, locate level is number 3). If you're concerned that the quest might one day be extended, I think it'd be fine to use just the start and locate levels. Actually, come to think of it, the filler level isn't even recognizable as a city; it's generic cavern filler. I intend to change that in xNetHack when I get around to redesigning the Tourist quest. But here and now, I agree it would make Ankh-Morpork characters feel oddly out of place in the filler level. Edited to add: they could also generate inside an if percent(xyz) then des.monster(...) endif block, so they're not guaranteed every game. Flavor can sometimes get stale if you experience it every time.
I don't believe I've ever used it, but there is a format suffix for stripping a leading "the": the "t" in %nt. This is used in the Rogue quest dialogue to refer to the Master of Thieves: "Did you perhaps mistake me for some other %lt?" which obviously doesn't render as "some other the Master of Thieves".
Technically the player's name can run up to 32, but I usually treat 16 as a reasonable max. When rewriting quest dialogue my usual process is to type out all the text as it will be rendered with no % specifiers (using XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX for the player's name), wrap it accordingly, and then when I'm happy with it, make a final pass to replace the hardcoded strings with % specifiers. But I understand that might not be as easy in a pull request where the text might change any time in response to feedback. |
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I've checked over all the lines, I THINK they are all correctly wrapped now.
Done. It's not clear I can capitalise these (I don't see any other % formatters with more than one modifier), so I also rearranged some sentences to get the "she's" away from the beginning.
I didn't want to go crazy on changing more than text, but I took a look at this, and I noticed that the Master of Thieves already doesn't have G_NOCORPSE in mon.h (as most quest nemeses do, but not all) - so maybe the reference to his crumbling to dust was an error? I'm not sure if there's something in hard code somewhere that stops nemeses leaving corpses. I've changed the text to draw less attention to it, anyway.
Spelling corrected, and phrasing changed to "the Ankh-Morpork Guild of Trespassers", if that's what you mean. The joke in DW canon (as you likely know) is that it used to be the Explorers' Guild but Vetinari made them change the name.
Changed to "flunkies", which has a nice TCOM-era Thieves' Guild-ey feel to it, I think.
Done.
I don't know how to do this without duplicating the characters, as commented above, but I did put some peaceful dwarves and rock trolls into the upper filler level, where I think they fit despite/because of it being a cavern level. They have default inventories, which may mean the dwarves destroy the walls, but I think that's fine in a cavern level. For the Locate level I added 10 possible NPC-monsters each with a 10% chance of appearing; if I'm getting the maths right, this gives a ~65% chance of one or more of them appearing, with an overall ~39% chance of exactly one, ~19% of exactly two, then tailing off. |
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I had actually forgotten the Guild of Trespassers was a thing, so carry on with that.
You capitalize the pronouns by making the suffix capital - i.e. while %dh is "he/she", %dH is "He/She". The code for this if you're interested in seeing the full array is convert_arg and convert_line in questpgr.c.
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| Take it with you on your quest for the Amulet of Yendor, and you'll travel in | ||
| good company. | ||
| "%pC, while you were away, %d appeared to me, and suggested I | ||
| transfer %oe platinum yendorian express card to you. Carry it with you on |
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missed conversion to a format string here?
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thanks, fixed for next commit
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| text = [[You are back at %H. Things are looking so dire, you're afraid that | ||
| there may soon be no %H to return to.]], |
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I know this is more or less unchanged, but if the stated stakes of the quest are "stop the Master of Thieves before he runs up a huge bill", this line no longer makes sense. Ankh-Morpork itself will be fine even if you fail.
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Right. I changed the assignquest text to make it about saving the tourist industry - still below "save the city" stakes, but explains a visibly bad situation on arrival (the Thieves Guild are ascendent, people are frightened), and changed this text accordingly.
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| if percent(10) then | ||
| des.monster({id="wizard", name="Granny Weatherwax", female=1, peaceful=1, keep_default_invent=false}) | ||
| end |
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Equal Rites establishes that there can be female wizards, but that witches and wizards are not two names for the same thing (as opposed to, say, Harry Potter). Granny Weatherwax is certainly not a wizard, and I feel if she appears in the game as a wizard and not a witch lots of people are going to complain. IMO, better just to leave her out since there is no "witch" monster in NetHack.
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She'd be referred to by her experience rank, but apart from maybe "enchantress" those are more wizardy than witchy, so fair enough - Granny excised. (She doesn't like Ankh-Morpork anyway.)
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(added 10% chance of Dorfl to keep the numbers up, though.)
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| des.monster("barbarian", peaceful=1, name="Bravd", male=1, keep_default_invent=false) | ||
| des.monster("rogue", peaceful=1, name="the Weasel", male=1, keep_default_invent=false) |
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These lines are going to throw a Lua error when the level loads; they need the table ({ ... }) syntax.
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Ah, thanks. Changed.
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This is a rewrite of most of the Tourist quest text. Previously it read like fairly standard generic fantasy, with Twoflower's lines seeming more like those of a priest or mystical leader than a Tourist. It now (I hope) reads something like the gently whimsical voice of Discworld, without overdoing it, and characterises Twoflower more like he appears in DW (optimistic, native, sees the best in everyone), and the Master of Thieves more like he appears in the Thief quest (wisecracking mob boss.)